Based on my exploration of different building ID's, my impression is that some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. \nI had assumed it would be the opposite. \nI am looking at average meter readings vs. temperature and vs. month of year. I did realize there is some missing (0) data often in the first few months of the year, but this doesn't seem to be the cause of my observation.
\n\nHas anyone else started exploring this aspect of the data?
", "messages": [ { "id": "653125", "postDate": "10/20/2019 01:30:47", "content": "Based on my exploration of different building ID's, my impression is that some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. \nI had assumed it would be the opposite. \nI am looking at average meter readings vs. temperature and vs. month of year. I did realize there is some missing (0) data often in the first few months of the year, but this doesn't seem to be the cause of my observation.
\n\nHas anyone else started exploring this aspect of the data?
", "rawMarkdown": "Based on my exploration of different building ID's, my impression is that some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. \nI had assumed it would be the opposite. \nI am looking at average meter readings vs. temperature and vs. month of year. I did realize there is some missing (0) data often in the first few months of the year, but this doesn't seem to be the cause of my observation.\n\nHas anyone else started exploring this aspect of the data?", "votes": null }, { "id": "653179", "postDate": "10/20/2019 03:04:04", "content": "\n\n\nsome of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. I had assumed it would be the opposite.
\n
I take it you've never paid for utility bills before ;-). Summer month are always more expensive than winter months. Cooling is a lot more difficult to do than heating and a lot less efficient, from an energy transfer standpoint.
", "rawMarkdown": "> some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. I had assumed it would be the opposite.\n\nI take it you've never paid for utility bills before ;-). Summer month are always more expensive than winter months. Cooling is a lot more difficult to do than heating and a lot less efficient, from an energy transfer standpoint.", "votes": null }, { "id": "653453", "postDate": "10/20/2019 13:41:04", "content": "That is right assumption
", "rawMarkdown": "That is right assumption", "votes": null }, { "id": "653508", "postDate": "10/20/2019 15:08:18", "content": "Wouldn't that depend on your climate?\nMy understanding is that the energy used is proportional to the temperature difference between inside and outside. So if you set your thermostat at 18, you'd use more energy to heat up from 5 deg C than to cool down from 25. Although there might be some efficiency differences between your heating and cooling systems.
\n\nI wonder if, for some buildings, some of the heating is not included in the meters. Maybe they use a fossil fuel source for heating that is not accounted for?
\n\nFor example, building 227 uses less energy (averaged per hour) when it's 0 degrees C outside than when it's 20
", "rawMarkdown": "Wouldn't that depend on your climate?\nMy understanding is that the energy used is proportional to the temperature difference between inside and outside. So if you set your thermostat at 18, you'd use more energy to heat up from 5 deg C than to cool down from 25. Although there might be some efficiency differences between your heating and cooling systems.\n\nI wonder if, for some buildings, some of the heating is not included in the meters. Maybe they use a fossil fuel source for heating that is not accounted for?\n\nFor example, building 227 uses less energy (averaged per hour) when it's 0 degrees C outside than when it's 20", "votes": null }, { "id": "653599", "postDate": "10/20/2019 17:41:00", "content": "Only worked on the edges of building energy and design over the years working for glass company making great glass for big buildings, but I know that for many \"office\" type buildings all the electrical gear, lights, etc. in a building generate a lot of heat and that the cooling load is much larger than the outside temperatures would suggest.
\n\nEven my house built in 1941 shows that effect - when I am running all 4 of my PC's (dual GPU for each) I am easily at 2000 watts or more. So when in full Kaggle mode I only see my heater kick on when the outside temperature drops below 50F.
\n\nSo when you look at the meter reading for electrical - remember that the load you see is generating heat as it operates all the gear in the joint.
", "rawMarkdown": "Only worked on the edges of building energy and design over the years working for glass company making great glass for big buildings, but I know that for many \"office\" type buildings all the electrical gear, lights, etc. in a building generate a lot of heat and that the cooling load is much larger than the outside temperatures would suggest.\n\nEven my house built in 1941 shows that effect - when I am running all 4 of my PC's (dual GPU for each) I am easily at 2000 watts or more. So when in full Kaggle mode I only see my heater kick on when the outside temperature drops below 50F.\n\nSo when you look at the meter reading for electrical - remember that the load you see is generating heat as it operates all the gear in the joint.", "votes": null }, { "id": "653608", "postDate": "10/20/2019 17:54:54", "content": "That's probably part of the story indeed.
\n\nI still can't wrap my head around why, for e.g. building 2, the meter readings increase as you go from 0 to 15 degrees C outdoor temperature.
\n\nWould buildings use AC when it's 10 degrees outside?
", "rawMarkdown": "That's probably part of the story indeed.\n\nI still can't wrap my head around why, for e.g. building 2, the meter readings increase as you go from 0 to 15 degrees C outdoor temperature.\n\nWould buildings use AC when it's 10 degrees outside?", "votes": null }, { "id": "653614", "postDate": "10/20/2019 17:59:57", "content": "Well said.
", "rawMarkdown": "Well said.", "votes": null }, { "id": "653732", "postDate": "10/20/2019 22:05:40", "content": "The primary use of building 227 is Entertainment/public assembly. We can assume that this building may not be heated or cooled all the time. Did you compare buildings with the same primary use?
", "rawMarkdown": "The primary use of building 227 is Entertainment/public assembly. We can assume that this building may not be heated or cooled all the time. Did you compare buildings with the same primary use?", "votes": null }, { "id": "653806", "postDate": "10/21/2019 01:24:04", "content": "I guess you have to add the heat generated by the occupants, it's actually quite significant! I read 67W of sensible heat per person (not too familiar with what sensible vs latent heat means in this context).
", "rawMarkdown": "I guess you have to add the heat generated by the occupants, it's actually quite significant! I read 67W of sensible heat per person (not too familiar with what sensible vs latent heat means in this context).", "votes": null }, { "id": "655187", "postDate": "10/22/2019 19:21:14", "content": "I had the same question by my side ...
", "rawMarkdown": "I had the same question by my side ...", "votes": null } ], "comments": [ { "id": 653179, "author_name": "authman", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 03:04:04", "content": "\n\n\nsome of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. I had assumed it would be the opposite.
\n
I take it you've never paid for utility bills before ;-). Summer month are always more expensive than winter months. Cooling is a lot more difficult to do than heating and a lot less efficient, from an energy transfer standpoint.
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 653508, "author_name": "sdoria", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 15:08:18", "content": "Wouldn't that depend on your climate?\nMy understanding is that the energy used is proportional to the temperature difference between inside and outside. So if you set your thermostat at 18, you'd use more energy to heat up from 5 deg C than to cool down from 25. Although there might be some efficiency differences between your heating and cooling systems.
\n\nI wonder if, for some buildings, some of the heating is not included in the meters. Maybe they use a fossil fuel source for heating that is not accounted for?
\n\nFor example, building 227 uses less energy (averaged per hour) when it's 0 degrees C outside than when it's 20
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 653614, "author_name": "authman", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 17:59:57", "content": "Well said.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 653732, "author_name": "clementfauchereau", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 22:05:40", "content": "The primary use of building 227 is Entertainment/public assembly. We can assume that this building may not be heated or cooled all the time. Did you compare buildings with the same primary use?
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 653453, "author_name": "michalpilch", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 13:41:04", "content": "That is right assumption
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 653599, "author_name": "pcjimmmy", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 17:41:00", "content": "Only worked on the edges of building energy and design over the years working for glass company making great glass for big buildings, but I know that for many \"office\" type buildings all the electrical gear, lights, etc. in a building generate a lot of heat and that the cooling load is much larger than the outside temperatures would suggest.
\n\nEven my house built in 1941 shows that effect - when I am running all 4 of my PC's (dual GPU for each) I am easily at 2000 watts or more. So when in full Kaggle mode I only see my heater kick on when the outside temperature drops below 50F.
\n\nSo when you look at the meter reading for electrical - remember that the load you see is generating heat as it operates all the gear in the joint.
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 653608, "author_name": "sdoria", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/20/2019 17:54:54", "content": "That's probably part of the story indeed.
\n\nI still can't wrap my head around why, for e.g. building 2, the meter readings increase as you go from 0 to 15 degrees C outdoor temperature.
\n\nWould buildings use AC when it's 10 degrees outside?
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 653806, "author_name": "sdoria", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/21/2019 01:24:04", "content": "I guess you have to add the heat generated by the occupants, it's actually quite significant! I read 67W of sensible heat per person (not too familiar with what sensible vs latent heat means in this context).
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 655187, "author_name": "pfichou", "author_url": "", "post_date": "10/22/2019 19:21:14", "content": "I had the same question by my side ...
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "653125": "Based on my exploration of different building ID's, my impression is that some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. \nI had assumed it would be the opposite. \nI am looking at average meter readings vs. temperature and vs. month of year. I did realize there is some missing (0) data often in the first few months of the year, but this doesn't seem to be the cause of my observation.\n\nHas anyone else started exploring this aspect of the data?", "653179": "> some of the buildings spend more energy cooling than heating. I had assumed it would be the opposite.\n\nI take it you've never paid for utility bills before ;-). Summer month are always more expensive than winter months. Cooling is a lot more difficult to do than heating and a lot less efficient, from an energy transfer standpoint.", "653453": "That is right assumption", "653508": "Wouldn't that depend on your climate?\nMy understanding is that the energy used is proportional to the temperature difference between inside and outside. So if you set your thermostat at 18, you'd use more energy to heat up from 5 deg C than to cool down from 25. Although there might be some efficiency differences between your heating and cooling systems.\n\nI wonder if, for some buildings, some of the heating is not included in the meters. Maybe they use a fossil fuel source for heating that is not accounted for?\n\nFor example, building 227 uses less energy (averaged per hour) when it's 0 degrees C outside than when it's 20", "653599": "Only worked on the edges of building energy and design over the years working for glass company making great glass for big buildings, but I know that for many \"office\" type buildings all the electrical gear, lights, etc. in a building generate a lot of heat and that the cooling load is much larger than the outside temperatures would suggest.\n\nEven my house built in 1941 shows that effect - when I am running all 4 of my PC's (dual GPU for each) I am easily at 2000 watts or more. So when in full Kaggle mode I only see my heater kick on when the outside temperature drops below 50F.\n\nSo when you look at the meter reading for electrical - remember that the load you see is generating heat as it operates all the gear in the joint.", "653608": "That's probably part of the story indeed.\n\nI still can't wrap my head around why, for e.g. building 2, the meter readings increase as you go from 0 to 15 degrees C outdoor temperature.\n\nWould buildings use AC when it's 10 degrees outside?", "653614": "Well said.", "653732": "The primary use of building 227 is Entertainment/public assembly. We can assume that this building may not be heated or cooled all the time. Did you compare buildings with the same primary use?", "653806": "I guess you have to add the heat generated by the occupants, it's actually quite significant! I read 67W of sensible heat per person (not too familiar with what sensible vs latent heat means in this context).", "655187": "I had the same question by my side ..." }, "source": "meta" }