I recently realized that my team may be removed from the competition and it worries me a lot. Here is the fact:
\n\nMy classmates and I decided to join in this competition and we planned to work as a team. However, due to the fact that we joined the competition very late, we have some extra submission budgets and we decided to merge into a team later because we will be restricted to 2 subs per day if we merge too early. (At that time we didn't realize the risk that we may be moved from the competition due to the similar predictions)
\n\nHowever, my classmate and I submitted many similar predictions (they even submitted 1 exactly same prediction) and we're not merged into a team at the moment (although we will be surely merged into a team later). In this case, will we be considered as cheaters and removed from the competition?
\n\nI really worries me a lot and I would very much appreciate your help!!!
", "messages": [ { "id": 668649, "postDate": "2019-11-08T17:02:16.373Z", "content": "Working outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules. You must join as a team first. Please merge at once, and we will make our consideration as to whether or not we will remove your team at the end of the competition.
", "rawMarkdown": "Working outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules. You must join as a team first. Please merge at once, and we will make our consideration as to whether or not we will remove your team at the end of the competition.", "votes": 6, "replies": [ { "id": 668762, "postDate": "2019-11-08T20:17:43.043Z", "content": "This is not fair of you. You should be able to tell them now if they violated the rules and will be disqualified or not. \nThey probably did, but in terms of transparency Kaggle team has a lot to learn from Kaggle users...
", "rawMarkdown": "This is not fair of you. You should be able to tell them **now** if they violated the rules and will be disqualified or not. \nThey probably did, but in terms of transparency Kaggle team has a lot to learn from Kaggle users...", "votes": 11 }, { "id": 668865, "postDate": "2019-11-09T01:12:10.647Z", "content": "I appreciate your reply! Would you mind tell me the decision now? Based on my research, there were many similar cases previously and I assume there should be some routines to follow.
\n\nIf the Kaggle team decides that we will be disqualified, we can totally accept the result and learn a lesson.
\n\nThe thing that I cannot accept is to work hard for the next months for this competition and only to find out our team is removed at the end.
", "rawMarkdown": "I appreciate your reply! Would you mind tell me the decision now? Based on my research, there were many similar cases previously and I assume there should be some routines to follow.\n\nIf the Kaggle team decides that we will be disqualified, we can totally accept the result and learn a lesson.\n\nThe thing that I cannot accept is to work hard for the next months for this competition and only to find out our team is removed at the end.", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 669068, "postDate": "2019-11-09T12:31:28.333Z", "content": "I just want to say that, working outside of teams with the intention of merging, is and has been considered legal, among the Kaggle community.
\n\nI really hate Kaggle for not having a clear rule. Could you please consider having an FAQ page for clarifying the rules? I am still in doubt if Addison's opinion is the consensus among all the Kaggle admins.
", "rawMarkdown": "I just want to say that, working outside of teams with the intention of merging, is and has been considered legal, among the Kaggle community. \n\nI really hate Kaggle for not having a clear rule. Could you please consider having an FAQ page for clarifying the rules? I am still in doubt if Addison's opinion is the consensus among all the Kaggle admins.\n", "votes": 7 }, { "id": 669400, "postDate": "2019-11-10T02:02:02.093Z", "content": "I also hope that the FAQ page will be created and the rules will be clear.
", "rawMarkdown": "I also hope that the FAQ page will be created and the rules will be clear.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 670734, "postDate": "2019-11-11T19:35:03.693Z", "content": "It's our policy to perform our anti-cheating procedures and remove participants at the end of the competition. However as noted above,
\n\n\n\n\nWorking outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules.
\n
Rules violation typically result in disqualification.
", "rawMarkdown": "It's our policy to perform our anti-cheating procedures and remove participants at the *end* of the competition. However as noted above, \n\n> Working outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules.\n\nRules violation typically result in disqualification.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 671770, "postDate": "2019-11-13T06:21:07.743Z", "content": "If the team is merged after submitting the same result, will the team be removed?
", "rawMarkdown": "If the team is merged after submitting the same result, will the team be removed?" } ] }, { "id": 668092, "postDate": "2019-11-08T01:04:05.503Z", "content": "I recently realized that my team may be removed from the competition and it worries me a lot. Here is the fact:
\n\nMy classmates and I decided to join in this competition and we planned to work as a team. However, due to the fact that we joined the competition very late, we have some extra submission budgets and we decided to merge into a team later because we will be restricted to 2 subs per day if we merge too early. (At that time we didn't realize the risk that we may be moved from the competition due to the similar predictions)
\n\nHowever, my classmate and I submitted many similar predictions (they even submitted 1 exactly same prediction) and we're not merged into a team at the moment (although we will be surely merged into a team later). In this case, will we be considered as cheaters and removed from the competition?
\n\nI really worries me a lot and I would very much appreciate your help!!!
", "rawMarkdown": "I recently realized that my team may be removed from the competition and it worries me a lot. Here is the fact:\n\nMy classmates and I decided to join in this competition and we planned to work as a team. However, due to the fact that we joined the competition very late, we have some extra submission budgets and we decided to merge into a team later because we will be restricted to 2 subs per day if we merge too early. (At that time we didn't realize the risk that we may be moved from the competition due to the similar predictions)\n\nHowever, my classmate and I submitted many similar predictions (they even submitted 1 exactly same prediction) and we're not merged into a team at the moment (although we will be surely merged into a team later). In this case, will we be considered as cheaters and removed from the competition? \n\nI really worries me a lot and I would very much appreciate your help!!!", "votes": 4 }, { "id": 669645, "postDate": "2019-11-10T09:37:12.903Z", "content": "Many people share before teaming. I, for instance, often ask about how models were validate so far when talking to a potential team mate. I can also agree beforehand on folds to enable stacking later, like \"using 5 stratified shuffle folds\".
\n\nBut I NEVER share data or code before teaming as this would be against the rules. Seems you did it unfortunately for you.
\n\nI wish Kaggle response was way clearer than the one they gave you.
", "rawMarkdown": "Many people share before teaming. I, for instance, often ask about how models were validate so far when talking to a potential team mate. I can also agree beforehand on folds to enable stacking later, like \"using 5 stratified shuffle folds\".\n\nBut I NEVER share data or code before teaming as this would be against the rules. Seems you did it unfortunately for you.\n\nI wish Kaggle response was way clearer than the one they gave you.", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 670739, "postDate": "2019-11-11T19:39:31.693Z", "content": "Admin confirming - this is allowable. No data or code sharing outside of Kaggle teams is allowed, unless that information is made public in the Kaggle forums as publicly shared information.
\n\nIt is considered a violation of the rules to share data or code privately without being a part of a Kaggle team, even if there is an intent to merge into a team at a later date.
", "rawMarkdown": "Admin confirming - this is allowable. No data or code sharing outside of Kaggle teams is allowed, unless that information is made public in the Kaggle forums as publicly shared information.\n\nIt is considered a violation of the rules to share data or code privately without being a part of a Kaggle team, even if there is an intent to merge into a team at a later date.", "votes": 2 }, { "id": 671967, "postDate": "2019-11-13T11:34:46.243Z", "content": "Thanks, this helps.
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks, this helps." } ] }, { "id": 668097, "postDate": "2019-11-08T01:19:26.247Z", "content": "sharing privately without being in a team is against the rules
", "rawMarkdown": "sharing privately without being in a team is against the rules", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 668101, "postDate": "2019-11-08T01:36:49.040Z", "content": "That's definitely true if people share privately without being the same team at the end. But I believe it's a relatively common practice that people may work together and share ideas before they actually merge into a team just to fully exploit the submission budgets, given that they have already decided to merge into a team later.
\n\nWhether this is an acceptable or unacceptable practice and whether this is against the rule or not against the rule is still remain discussed. Actually I saw some discussion about this before: https://www.kaggle.com/c/ieee-fraud-detection/discussion/104760#latest-613337
\n\nPlease, l just want to know is this practice will result in a team removal from the competition at the end.
", "rawMarkdown": "That's definitely true if people share privately without being the same team at the end. But I believe it's a relatively common practice that people may work together and share ideas before they actually merge into a team just to fully exploit the submission budgets, given that they have already decided to merge into a team later. \n\nWhether this is an acceptable or unacceptable practice and whether this is against the rule or not against the rule is still remain discussed. Actually I saw some discussion about this before: https://www.kaggle.com/c/ieee-fraud-detection/discussion/104760#latest-613337\n\nPlease, l just want to know is this practice will result in a team removal from the competition at the end." }, { "id": 668113, "postDate": "2019-11-08T01:51:07.713Z", "content": "I tend to agree it might be against the rule but I'm also aware that many people did this before. I don't think they were removed from the competition in the end but I'm not sure, though.
\n\nJust some suggestion: Let's not judge or discuss it's a private sharing or not since apparently @lolaya needs some help. It would be better if we can provide some constructive suggestions
\n\nBTW, my suggestion is: It should be ok if you guys form into a team later (not 100% sure, though)
", "rawMarkdown": "I tend to agree it might be against the rule but I'm also aware that many people did this before. I don't think they were removed from the competition in the end but I'm not sure, though.\n\nJust some suggestion: Let's not judge or discuss it's a private sharing or not since apparently @lolaya needs some help. It would be better if we can provide some constructive suggestions\n\nBTW, my suggestion is: It should be ok if you guys form into a team later (not 100% sure, though)", "votes": 2 } ] }, { "id": 669554, "postDate": "2019-11-10T07:12:00.450Z", "content": "Just as a side comment your submission budget does not actually change if you are separate or together. Your combined value still needs to be under the daily submission limit. If you are each doing max submissions every day then before the merger deadline you wont actually be able to merge because your combined total is above the overall limit.
", "rawMarkdown": "Just as a side comment your submission budget does not actually change if you are separate or together. Your combined value still needs to be under the daily submission limit. If you are each doing max submissions every day then before the merger deadline you wont actually be able to merge because your combined total is above the overall limit. ", "replies": [ { "id": 669577, "postDate": "2019-11-10T07:44:23.873Z", "content": "The apparent logic shared by the lolaya is that since they started late they have some submissions available to keep them below the limit for combined total. So if starting 30 days late - than there is a bank of 60 extra submissions to spend before they team up.
", "rawMarkdown": "The apparent logic shared by the lolaya is that since they started late they have some submissions available to keep them below the limit for combined total. So if starting 30 days late - than there is a bank of 60 extra submissions to spend before they team up.\n\n", "votes": -1 }, { "id": 669640, "postDate": "2019-11-10T09:21:19.120Z", "content": "That only applies if you start on day 1.
", "rawMarkdown": "That only applies if you start on day 1. " }, { "id": 669648, "postDate": "2019-11-10T09:38:13.203Z", "content": "\n\n\nSo my future plans will be to make 0 submissions until the last week of any competition. Than I can offer myself to a team as a bank full of submissions - thus allowing them to add additional members who have unwisely spent their submission allowance.
\n
Flawed logic. Daily allowance does not change if you add members to a team.
", "rawMarkdown": "> So my future plans will be to make 0 submissions until the last week of any competition. Than I can offer myself to a team as a bank full of submissions - thus allowing them to add additional members who have unwisely spent their submission allowance.\n\nFlawed logic. Daily allowance does not change if you add members to a team." }, { "id": 672325, "postDate": "2019-11-13T19:11:04.253Z", "content": "@philippsinger it's actually the case that if they start using all of their submissions half way through the start date and merger deadline they will actually get locked out. If one person does 2 submissions a day for 2 months that would be 60 submissions. If two people start submitting 2 submissions per day for 1 month that would also be the maximum 60 submissions.
", "rawMarkdown": "@philippsinger it's actually the case that if they start using all of their submissions half way through the start date and merger deadline they will actually get locked out. If one person does 2 submissions a day for 2 months that would be 60 submissions. If two people start submitting 2 submissions per day for 1 month that would also be the maximum 60 submissions. " }, { "id": 672346, "postDate": "2019-11-13T19:41:37.220Z", "content": "@ryches Aware of that. But what he means is that when you join late in a competition, you have way more subs left and you have more if you don't team up. That's why I said this only applies if you start on day 1.
", "rawMarkdown": "@ryches Aware of that. But what he means is that when you join late in a competition, you have way more subs left and you have more if you don't team up. That's why I said this only applies if you start on day 1. " } ] }, { "id": 668858, "postDate": "2019-11-09T00:46:03.210Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": 1, "isDeleted": true, "replies": [ { "id": 668861, "postDate": "2019-11-09T01:03:29.923Z", "content": "Thanks for your reply. But I'm assuming you're familiar with the team mergers, right? \"Team mergers are allowed and can be performed by the team leader. In order to merge, the combined team must have a total submission count less than or equal to the maximum allowed as of the merge date. The maximum allowed is the number of submissions per day multiplied by the number of days the competition has been running\"
\n\nWorking together before officially merging into a team may violate the rule but cannot allow extra submissions in total.
", "rawMarkdown": "Thanks for your reply. But I'm assuming you're familiar with the team mergers, right? \"*Team mergers are allowed and can be performed by the team leader. In order to merge, the combined team must have a total submission count less than or equal to the maximum allowed as of the merge date. The maximum allowed is the number of submissions per day multiplied by the number of days the competition has been running*\"\n\nWorking together before officially merging into a team may violate the rule but cannot allow extra submissions in total.", "votes": 1 }, { "id": 668891, "postDate": "2019-11-09T03:06:00.603Z", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": -2, "isDeleted": true }, { "id": 669437, "postDate": "2019-11-10T04:16:23.443Z", "content": "Deleted my comments - Since my down votes exceeding my up votes - I guess its ok to cheat if you plan to play fair later.
", "rawMarkdown": "Deleted my comments - Since my down votes exceeding my up votes - I guess its ok to cheat if you plan to play fair later.", "votes": 1 } ] } ], "comments": [ { "id": 668649, "author_name": "Addison Howard", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-08T17:02:16.373000", "content": "Working outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules. You must join as a team first. Please merge at once, and we will make our consideration as to whether or not we will remove your team at the end of the competition.
", "votes": 6, "replies": [ { "id": 668762, "author_name": "bluetrain", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-08T20:17:43.043000", "content": "This is not fair of you. You should be able to tell them now if they violated the rules and will be disqualified or not. \nThey probably did, but in terms of transparency Kaggle team has a lot to learn from Kaggle users...
", "votes": 11, "replies": [] }, { "id": 668865, "author_name": "lolaya", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T01:12:10.647000", "content": "I appreciate your reply! Would you mind tell me the decision now? Based on my research, there were many similar cases previously and I assume there should be some routines to follow.
\n\nIf the Kaggle team decides that we will be disqualified, we can totally accept the result and learn a lesson.
\n\nThe thing that I cannot accept is to work hard for the next months for this competition and only to find out our team is removed at the end.
", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 669068, "author_name": "pocket", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T12:31:28.333000", "content": "I just want to say that, working outside of teams with the intention of merging, is and has been considered legal, among the Kaggle community.
\n\nI really hate Kaggle for not having a clear rule. Could you please consider having an FAQ page for clarifying the rules? I am still in doubt if Addison's opinion is the consensus among all the Kaggle admins.
", "votes": 7, "replies": [] }, { "id": 669400, "author_name": "currypurin", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T02:02:02.093000", "content": "I also hope that the FAQ page will be created and the rules will be clear.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 670734, "author_name": "Addison Howard", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-11T19:35:03.693000", "content": "It's our policy to perform our anti-cheating procedures and remove participants at the end of the competition. However as noted above,
\n\n\n\n\nWorking outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules.
\n
Rules violation typically result in disqualification.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 671770, "author_name": "Forest", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-13T06:21:07.743000", "content": "If the team is merged after submitting the same result, will the team be removed?
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 669645, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T09:37:12.903000", "content": "Many people share before teaming. I, for instance, often ask about how models were validate so far when talking to a potential team mate. I can also agree beforehand on folds to enable stacking later, like \"using 5 stratified shuffle folds\".
\n\nBut I NEVER share data or code before teaming as this would be against the rules. Seems you did it unfortunately for you.
\n\nI wish Kaggle response was way clearer than the one they gave you.
", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 670739, "author_name": "Addison Howard", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-11T19:39:31.693000", "content": "Admin confirming - this is allowable. No data or code sharing outside of Kaggle teams is allowed, unless that information is made public in the Kaggle forums as publicly shared information.
\n\nIt is considered a violation of the rules to share data or code privately without being a part of a Kaggle team, even if there is an intent to merge into a team at a later date.
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 671967, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-13T11:34:46.243000", "content": "Thanks, this helps.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 668097, "author_name": "SteveKane", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-08T01:19:26.247000", "content": "sharing privately without being in a team is against the rules
", "votes": 3, "replies": [ { "id": 668101, "author_name": "lolaya", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-08T01:36:49.040000", "content": "That's definitely true if people share privately without being the same team at the end. But I believe it's a relatively common practice that people may work together and share ideas before they actually merge into a team just to fully exploit the submission budgets, given that they have already decided to merge into a team later.
\n\nWhether this is an acceptable or unacceptable practice and whether this is against the rule or not against the rule is still remain discussed. Actually I saw some discussion about this before: https://www.kaggle.com/c/ieee-fraud-detection/discussion/104760#latest-613337
\n\nPlease, l just want to know is this practice will result in a team removal from the competition at the end.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 668113, "author_name": "Alex", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-08T01:51:07.713000", "content": "I tend to agree it might be against the rule but I'm also aware that many people did this before. I don't think they were removed from the competition in the end but I'm not sure, though.
\n\nJust some suggestion: Let's not judge or discuss it's a private sharing or not since apparently @lolaya needs some help. It would be better if we can provide some constructive suggestions
\n\nBTW, my suggestion is: It should be ok if you guys form into a team later (not 100% sure, though)
", "votes": 2, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 669554, "author_name": "ryches", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T07:12:00.450000", "content": "Just as a side comment your submission budget does not actually change if you are separate or together. Your combined value still needs to be under the daily submission limit. If you are each doing max submissions every day then before the merger deadline you wont actually be able to merge because your combined total is above the overall limit.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [ { "id": 669577, "author_name": "PC Jimmmy", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T07:44:23.873000", "content": "The apparent logic shared by the lolaya is that since they started late they have some submissions available to keep them below the limit for combined total. So if starting 30 days late - than there is a bank of 60 extra submissions to spend before they team up.
", "votes": -1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 669640, "author_name": "Psi", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T09:21:19.120000", "content": "That only applies if you start on day 1.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 669648, "author_name": "CPMP", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T09:38:13.203000", "content": "\n\n\nSo my future plans will be to make 0 submissions until the last week of any competition. Than I can offer myself to a team as a bank full of submissions - thus allowing them to add additional members who have unwisely spent their submission allowance.
\n
Flawed logic. Daily allowance does not change if you add members to a team.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 672325, "author_name": "ryches", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-13T19:11:04.253000", "content": "@philippsinger it's actually the case that if they start using all of their submissions half way through the start date and merger deadline they will actually get locked out. If one person does 2 submissions a day for 2 months that would be 60 submissions. If two people start submitting 2 submissions per day for 1 month that would also be the maximum 60 submissions.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] }, { "id": 672346, "author_name": "Psi", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-13T19:41:37.220000", "content": "@ryches Aware of that. But what he means is that when you join late in a competition, you have way more subs left and you have more if you don't team up. That's why I said this only applies if you start on day 1.
", "votes": 0, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 668858, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T00:46:03.210000", "content": "", "votes": 1, "replies": [ { "id": 668861, "author_name": "lolaya", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T01:03:29.923000", "content": "Thanks for your reply. But I'm assuming you're familiar with the team mergers, right? \"Team mergers are allowed and can be performed by the team leader. In order to merge, the combined team must have a total submission count less than or equal to the maximum allowed as of the merge date. The maximum allowed is the number of submissions per day multiplied by the number of days the competition has been running\"
\n\nWorking together before officially merging into a team may violate the rule but cannot allow extra submissions in total.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] }, { "id": 668891, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-09T03:06:00.603000", "content": "", "votes": -2, "replies": [] }, { "id": 669437, "author_name": "PC Jimmmy", "author_url": "", "post_date": "2019-11-10T04:16:23.443000", "content": "Deleted my comments - Since my down votes exceeding my up votes - I guess its ok to cheat if you plan to play fair later.
", "votes": 1, "replies": [] } ] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "668649": "Working outside of Kaggle teams, even with the intent to merge eventually, is still a violation of the rules. You must join as a team first. Please merge at once, and we will make our consideration as to whether or not we will remove your team at the end of the competition.", "668092": "I recently realized that my team may be removed from the competition and it worries me a lot. Here is the fact:\n\nMy classmates and I decided to join in this competition and we planned to work as a team. However, due to the fact that we joined the competition very late, we have some extra submission budgets and we decided to merge into a team later because we will be restricted to 2 subs per day if we merge too early. (At that time we didn't realize the risk that we may be moved from the competition due to the similar predictions)\n\nHowever, my classmate and I submitted many similar predictions (they even submitted 1 exactly same prediction) and we're not merged into a team at the moment (although we will be surely merged into a team later). In this case, will we be considered as cheaters and removed from the competition? \n\nI really worries me a lot and I would very much appreciate your help!!!", "669645": "Many people share before teaming. I, for instance, often ask about how models were validate so far when talking to a potential team mate. I can also agree beforehand on folds to enable stacking later, like \"using 5 stratified shuffle folds\".\n\nBut I NEVER share data or code before teaming as this would be against the rules. Seems you did it unfortunately for you.\n\nI wish Kaggle response was way clearer than the one they gave you.", "668097": "sharing privately without being in a team is against the rules", "669554": "Just as a side comment your submission budget does not actually change if you are separate or together. Your combined value still needs to be under the daily submission limit. If you are each doing max submissions every day then before the merger deadline you wont actually be able to merge because your combined total is above the overall limit. ", "668858": "" } }