I downloaded the data for Facebook competition a while and have been working on it. I wanted to submit it yesterday and I wasn't allowed to. This is such a shame. I dont quite understand. This only means, as soon as a competition starts, I should merely submit the "sample submission.csv" and I can then go about at my own pace.
\n\nI can understand Kaggle doing this to perhaps prevent cheating in some sense but it doesnt make any sense to me as the simple workaround exists.
\n\nAnd their support sucks. I sent mail asking for help and they dont respond.
\n\nI am disappointed in Kaggle. I thought they could do some data analysis themselves to figure out if my request was genuine.
", "messages": [ { "id": "80680", "postDate": "06/02/2015 18:03:50", "content": "I downloaded the data for Facebook competition a while and have been working on it. I wanted to submit it yesterday and I wasn't allowed to. This is such a shame. I dont quite understand. This only means, as soon as a competition starts, I should merely submit the "sample submission.csv" and I can then go about at my own pace.
\n\nI can understand Kaggle doing this to perhaps prevent cheating in some sense but it doesnt make any sense to me as the simple workaround exists.
\n\nAnd their support sucks. I sent mail asking for help and they dont respond.
\n\nI am disappointed in Kaggle. I thought they could do some data analysis themselves to figure out if my request was genuine.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80681", "postDate": "06/02/2015 18:12:54", "content": "> I dont quite understand
\nYou missed the submission deadline. It's that simple and there is no helping that. Kaggle is not out to get you.
\nYou can still submit after the competition has ended to see what your score would have been.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80686", "postDate": "06/02/2015 19:52:51", "content": "Allow me to ask you a question: What is the point of this deadline? What purpose does it serve?
\n\nI have a easy workaround. submit samplesubmission.csv as soon as competition starts. Hence I do not understand the rule as it is trivially easy to beat the rule.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80691", "postDate": "06/02/2015 20:03:47", "content": "This deadline rule is before my time, but I gathered it had to do with many teams joining in the last week (or day) of the competition and doing well, resulting in a highly variant leaderboard near the finish. This was very frustrating for the other competitors. Furthermore there was a high correlation between last-minute wondrous behavior and cheating. Your easy workaround does not remove this signal, aka: submitting samplesubmission, then submitting 3 very good solutions one day before the end of the competition can be indicative of fishy behavior. You easy workaround does help combatting annoyance with late-entry competitors. I suggest you implement your workaround next time so we do not need to have this conversation :).
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80694", "postDate": "06/02/2015 20:11:28", "content": "agree. I have just submitted in several competitions even though I do not know if I am serious about those or not.
\n\nRegarding your comment of cheating, I think those who want to cheat can and will cheat. This rule is almost like catching robots. There will be some false positives I guess.
\n\nThanks
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80696", "postDate": "06/02/2015 20:24:35", "content": "Why do we have law enforcement when crimes still happen ? We have them so that not everyone will break the law. Some people break the law and get caught. Some people will be smart enough to escape. Rules are rules , no matter how stupid they look.
\n\nI would say "Follow them " :-)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80697", "postDate": "06/02/2015 20:29:26", "content": "You are missing the point. What is the use of a rule that is so easy to break? You cant just have rules for the sake of rules. I am questioning the rule.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80700", "postDate": "06/02/2015 20:49:27", "content": "kunapalli - I am in the same boat. This was going to be my first competition to attempt a submission. It seems asinine to me to require a submission before the ACTUAL deadline in order to be included in the competition. Then you add to it that the initial submission can just be all zeros but can be changed later to a real submission. Wow... :-(
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80702", "postDate": "06/02/2015 21:10:59", "content": "I'm sure Kaggle has good reasons for using the first submission deadline. I don't think it's reasonable to expect exceptions to be granted given the fairness concerns for other participants.
\nI do think that it's a fair point that communication of this "gotcha" could be improved for new users. It seems to be a fairly common complaint. I worked for a few hours on the TFI competition before realizing I should have submitted "something" early to meet the deadline requirement.
\nLive and learn.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80705", "postDate": "06/02/2015 21:27:35", "content": "Brach -
\nYou're right. The website is very unintuitive in this regard and that is a seemingly easy fix. I had noticed the "Enter by" deadline, but I had just assumed that I was "entered" by getting the data and seeing that I seemed to be set up under the "My Team" link.
\n\nIf the graphic at the top of the competition was changed from "Enter by" to "Initial Submission by", I doubt there would be any confusion. Not sure why the website designers decided to use "enter" and "initial submission" interchangeably.
\n\nAnyway, it is pretty disappointing given the amount of time I have spent on this one. If any admins can make an exception, please help me out!
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80707", "postDate": "06/02/2015 21:33:39", "content": "I agree with you James. I will also go to the extent of waiving my 'winning' rights (should I win) for allowing me to submit. For me the learning is more valuable than the money. There must be some options such as "waive prizes" that will still allow you to enter.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80728", "postDate": "06/03/2015 02:34:24", "content": "[quote=kunapalli;80707]
\nI agree with you James. I will also go to the extent of waiving my 'winning' rights (should I win) for allowing me to submit. For me the learning is more valuable than the money. There must be some options such as "waive prizes" that will still allow you to enter.
\n[/quote]
\n\nI believe as soon as the competition is over you can submit for a hypothetical score.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80729", "postDate": "06/03/2015 02:38:47", "content": "[quote=Triskelion;80691]
\nThis deadline rule is before my time, but I gathered it had to do with many teams joining in the last week (or day) of the competition and doing well, resulting in a highly variant leaderboard near the finish. This was very frustrating for the other competitors. Furthermore there was a high correlation between last-minute wondrous behavior and cheating. Your easy workaround does not remove this signal, aka: submitting samplesubmission, then submitting 3 very good solutions one day before the end of the competition can be indicative of fishy behavior. You easy workaround does help combatting annoyance with late-entry competitors. I suggest you implement your workaround next time so we do not need to have this conversation :).
\n[/quote]
\nI think it is also to prevent people from easily making new accounts near the end and getting new submissions ala Baidu.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80760", "postDate": "06/03/2015 14:23:03", "content": "[quote=jjMax;80729]
\nI think it is also to prevent people from easily making new accounts near the end and getting new submissions ala Baidu.
\n[/quote]
\nPerhaps the "enter by" rule should only be enforced for new accounts. (Or perhaps waived for accounts with a certain amount of accumulated Kaggle points.)
\nAlthough, that is probably a practical mess to try to implement. And it really wouldn't help most people who get burned by the rule. So, consider it just thinking out loud.
\nI'm mentioning this because I had planned to do a Saturday hackathon, but just realized I hadn't entered this contest.
\nOf course, it's not like there's a dearth of other competitions I to be working on. :-)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80761", "postDate": "06/03/2015 14:37:41", "content": "", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80763", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:06:31", "content": "[quote=pseudopolymath;80761]
\nProbably easier to just keep the enter by date and whenever someone clicks agree to rules kaggle automatically gives them a sample_submission as their first entry.
\n[/quote]
\nBut why even need the submission. Perhaps it should be "Accept Rules By".
\nNow that I'm thinking about it, there are two issues. The first is discouraging bad behavior, and the second is knowing when someone has entered a competition.
\nWhat I mean by that second point is how does Kaggle know when they should post a badge on your profile? When you accept the rules? After your first submission?
\nI usually take 5-10 submissions before I decide if I'm going to spend significant time on a competition. Let's say I'm mid-pack, and then decide to leave it alone. When the contest is done, I get a badge showing I finished rather poorly.
\nIt would be nice to be able to withdraw from a competition by a certain time.
\nAgain, this might be practically difficult, and cause other issues I haven't thought of.
\nBut, I really only care about the contests where I gave it a decent try.
\nOn the other hand, it's not that big a deal to me. It just came to mind when thinking about whether or not a first submission should be required before Kaggle considers someone "entered" in the competition.
\nRequiring that first submission allows someone to look at the data and effectively say "this contest is not for me" before committing.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80764", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:13:33", "content": "Maybe next time when you all press the "I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE RULES" button - you will actually read the rules. All these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious. You might as well just let everyone know that you are incapable of reading rules. You pressed the button when downloading the data - don't press the button if you're incapable of reading
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80766", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:21:02", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nMaybe next time when you all press the "I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE RULES" button - you will actually read the rules.
\n[/quote]
\nHahaha.
\nWell, in my case, I didn't click the rules before the deadline. :-)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80767", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:25:24", "content": "", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80770", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:39:01", "content": "[quote=pseudopolymath;80767]
\n[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nAll these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious.
\n[/quote]
\nIf like you say, there really are a lot of these posts every competition, I would say that is indicative of bad design, not tedium.
\n[/quote]
\nYou're not getting it are you? You pressed the button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly, anyone who tries to submit after the deadline did not read the rules even though they pressed the button. Where's the bad design? It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule - that's irrelevant. You pressed the button in dishonest fashion
\n\nEDIT: and the fact it has become tedious is more a reflection on how incapable some noobies are at reading
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80771", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:39:13", "content": "", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80774", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:50:29", "content": "[quote=kunapalli;80680]
\nI downloaded the data for Facebook competition a while and have been working on it. I wanted to submit it yesterday and I wasn't allowed to. This is such a shame. I dont quite understand. This only means, as soon as a competition starts, I should merely submit the "sample submission.csv" and I can then go about at my own pace.
\nI can understand Kaggle doing this to perhaps prevent cheating in some sense but it doesnt make any sense to me as the simple workaround exists.
\nAnd their support sucks. I sent mail asking for help and they dont respond.
\nI am disappointed in Kaggle. I thought they could do some data analysis themselves to figure out if my request was genuine.
\n[/quote]
\nYou should be disappointed with yourself not Kaggle. You pressed a button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly you didn't. The cause of your problem is due to the fact you dishonestly pressed that button - you had not read the rules at all. Next time don't press buttons dishonestly and you won't get in the same situation
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80777", "postDate": "06/03/2015 15:58:47", "content": "Bluefool, to be fair Kaggle's rules read like legal jargon. I think all of us at one time or another have clicked an I accept these terms and conditions without actually reading them. Personally, I wish the relevant rules were easier to understand. For instance, saying things like no code or data may be shared in the forums is ambiguous (what do they mean when they say data?)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80778", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:02:51", "content": "The main things are:
\n1. Can I form a team?
\n2. When's the first submission date?
\n3. Can I use external data?
\n4. Can I share? (the answer to this is usually YES unless Recruitment competition then it's best to keep off the forums)
\n5. How many submissions per day?
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80779", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:04:11", "content": "", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80780", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:05:47", "content": "Then you should both know better and actually read the rules before clicking the button
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80782", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:13:46", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80780]
\nThen you should both know better and actually read the rules before clicking the button
\n[/quote]
\nI just saw I missed the deadline. I didn't click the button. :-)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80785", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:15:27", "content": "", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80786", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:16:47", "content": "Sorry - I get uptight about "rules" - I'm in the spectrum. I also read instruction manuals
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80797", "postDate": "06/03/2015 16:48:00", "content": "I read the rules for the TFI competition in their entirety and still got bit by the first submission issue. When you're new, there's a bit of information overload going on. Key bits of information come and go into your consciousness when you are trying to process that much. You may forget about the "first submission deadline" until it is too late.
\nWhy would it hurt to call out the FSD issue a little more clearly, and to suggest the best practice of submitting a skeleton solution immediately if you are interested in a competition? That might actually reduce the number of people affected by this issue, and give the site veterans a break from having to hear so much about it.
\nSaying "read the rules" isn't really a solution, as my case illustrates. Understanding the rules is the end state we all desire. The question is - if people don't adequately understand an important rule, what specifically can we do to improve the understanding.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80823", "postDate": "06/03/2015 21:05:46", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80770]
\n[quote=pseudopolymath;80767]
\n[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nAll these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious.
\n[/quote]
\nIf like you say, there really are a lot of these posts every competition, I would say that is indicative of bad design, not tedium.
\n[/quote]
\nYou're not getting it are you? You pressed the button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly, anyone who tries to submit after the deadline did not read the rules even though they pressed the button. Where's the bad design? It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule - that's irrelevant. You pressed the button in dishonest fashion
\nEDIT: and the fact it has become tedious is more a reflection on how incapable some noobies are at reading
\n[/quote]
\nTo be fair.
\nI wouldnt make it a reflection of "noobies". 1004 people of which at least a decent chunk are "noobies" managed to understand the parameters of the competition.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80868", "postDate": "06/04/2015 10:12:45", "content": "Also, submissions are currently broken due to the shitty vanity url thing.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80890", "postDate": "06/04/2015 16:42:08", "content": "I entered the competition in May.
\nWhat does "Deadline for new entrants" mean here? Deadline for first submission?
\nWell I managed to submit today, but Kaggle says "This competition is closed to new entrants" !
\nDid I misunderstand "Deadline for new entrants" meaning?
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80901", "postDate": "06/04/2015 18:06:35", "content": "[quote=Amin Dorostanian;80890]
\nI entered the competition in May.
\nWhat does "Deadline for new entrants" mean here? Deadline for first submission?
\nWell I managed to submit today, but Kaggle says "This competition is closed to new entrants" !
\nDid I misunderstand "Deadline for new entrants" meaning?
\n[/quote]
\nYou must upload your first submission before deadline. If you are wondering why you can read messages above :).
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "80921", "postDate": "06/04/2015 21:11:50", "content": "Thanks for the feedback! We've updated the text on competition timelines to be more clear. (See above :)
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "81166", "postDate": "06/07/2015 17:36:09", "content": "Same for me. I am not really clear about this. I downloaded the data for the Facebook and now trying to make a submission and it doesn't let me. It is my first time. I thought deadline is 6/8/2015. Anyway I should have read the rules more carefully may be.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "81167", "postDate": "06/07/2015 17:46:09", "content": "I think some people will associate the ''1st submission deadline" with the date below the bar instead of the red dot. It is slightly unclear when I look at it. Maybe have the competition end as hover text and the first submission date below the progress bar.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "81168", "postDate": "06/07/2015 17:50:30", "content": "Competition Notes:
\nStarted: 4:40 pm, Monday 27 April 2015 UTC
Ends: 11:59 pm, Monday 8 June 2015 UTC (42 total days)
Points: this competition awards standard ranking points
Tiers: this competition counts towards tiers
Rule Says
\nStart Date: 4/27/2015 4:40:01 PM UTC
Merger Deadline: None
First Submission Deadline: 6/1/2015 11:59:00 PM UTC
End Date: 6/8/2015 11:59:00 PM UTC
Would be nice to add first submission deadline to the Competition main page. My Facebook dreams got shattered by this Hypothesis class.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "81215", "postDate": "06/08/2015 08:04:57", "content": "Can I submit after competition is closed, ie on June 9th? My goal is only academic, that is to see where my submission stands and not really to participate in the competition.
", "rawMarkdown": "", "votes": null }, { "id": "81225", "postDate": "06/08/2015 11:33:55", "content": "Hi, I also missed the first submission deadline. I am allowed to submit and see my score only after the competition has ended right?
\n[btw, I didn't notice the red dot on the blue bar. I didn't even notice the blue bar. This is what I cared about, and what I really find misleading:
\nStarted: 4:40 pm, Monday 27 April 2015 UTC
Ends: 11:59 pm, Monday 8 June 2015 UTC (42 total days)
Points: this competition awards standard ranking points
Tiers: this competition counts towards tiers]
> I dont quite understand
\nYou missed the submission deadline. It's that simple and there is no helping that. Kaggle is not out to get you.
\nYou can still submit after the competition has ended to see what your score would have been.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80686, "author_name": "kunapalli", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 19:52:51", "content": "Allow me to ask you a question: What is the point of this deadline? What purpose does it serve?
\n\nI have a easy workaround. submit samplesubmission.csv as soon as competition starts. Hence I do not understand the rule as it is trivially easy to beat the rule.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80691, "author_name": "triskelion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 20:03:47", "content": "This deadline rule is before my time, but I gathered it had to do with many teams joining in the last week (or day) of the competition and doing well, resulting in a highly variant leaderboard near the finish. This was very frustrating for the other competitors. Furthermore there was a high correlation between last-minute wondrous behavior and cheating. Your easy workaround does not remove this signal, aka: submitting samplesubmission, then submitting 3 very good solutions one day before the end of the competition can be indicative of fishy behavior. You easy workaround does help combatting annoyance with late-entry competitors. I suggest you implement your workaround next time so we do not need to have this conversation :).
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80694, "author_name": "kunapalli", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 20:11:28", "content": "agree. I have just submitted in several competitions even though I do not know if I am serious about those or not.
\n\nRegarding your comment of cheating, I think those who want to cheat can and will cheat. This rule is almost like catching robots. There will be some false positives I guess.
\n\nThanks
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80696, "author_name": "ggorantla", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 20:24:35", "content": "Why do we have law enforcement when crimes still happen ? We have them so that not everyone will break the law. Some people break the law and get caught. Some people will be smart enough to escape. Rules are rules , no matter how stupid they look.
\n\nI would say "Follow them " :-)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80697, "author_name": "kunapalli", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 20:29:26", "content": "You are missing the point. What is the use of a rule that is so easy to break? You cant just have rules for the sake of rules. I am questioning the rule.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80700, "author_name": "morsecode", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 20:49:27", "content": "kunapalli - I am in the same boat. This was going to be my first competition to attempt a submission. It seems asinine to me to require a submission before the ACTUAL deadline in order to be included in the competition. Then you add to it that the initial submission can just be all zeros but can be changed later to a real submission. Wow... :-(
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80702, "author_name": "datamagic", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 21:10:59", "content": "I'm sure Kaggle has good reasons for using the first submission deadline. I don't think it's reasonable to expect exceptions to be granted given the fairness concerns for other participants.
\nI do think that it's a fair point that communication of this "gotcha" could be improved for new users. It seems to be a fairly common complaint. I worked for a few hours on the TFI competition before realizing I should have submitted "something" early to meet the deadline requirement.
\nLive and learn.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80705, "author_name": "morsecode", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 21:27:35", "content": "Brach -
\nYou're right. The website is very unintuitive in this regard and that is a seemingly easy fix. I had noticed the "Enter by" deadline, but I had just assumed that I was "entered" by getting the data and seeing that I seemed to be set up under the "My Team" link.
\n\nIf the graphic at the top of the competition was changed from "Enter by" to "Initial Submission by", I doubt there would be any confusion. Not sure why the website designers decided to use "enter" and "initial submission" interchangeably.
\n\nAnyway, it is pretty disappointing given the amount of time I have spent on this one. If any admins can make an exception, please help me out!
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80707, "author_name": "kunapalli", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/02/2015 21:33:39", "content": "I agree with you James. I will also go to the extent of waiving my 'winning' rights (should I win) for allowing me to submit. For me the learning is more valuable than the money. There must be some options such as "waive prizes" that will still allow you to enter.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80728, "author_name": "jbsilva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 02:34:24", "content": "[quote=kunapalli;80707]
\nI agree with you James. I will also go to the extent of waiving my 'winning' rights (should I win) for allowing me to submit. For me the learning is more valuable than the money. There must be some options such as "waive prizes" that will still allow you to enter.
\n[/quote]
\n\nI believe as soon as the competition is over you can submit for a hypothetical score.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80729, "author_name": "jbsilva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 02:38:47", "content": "[quote=Triskelion;80691]
\nThis deadline rule is before my time, but I gathered it had to do with many teams joining in the last week (or day) of the competition and doing well, resulting in a highly variant leaderboard near the finish. This was very frustrating for the other competitors. Furthermore there was a high correlation between last-minute wondrous behavior and cheating. Your easy workaround does not remove this signal, aka: submitting samplesubmission, then submitting 3 very good solutions one day before the end of the competition can be indicative of fishy behavior. You easy workaround does help combatting annoyance with late-entry competitors. I suggest you implement your workaround next time so we do not need to have this conversation :).
\n[/quote]
\nI think it is also to prevent people from easily making new accounts near the end and getting new submissions ala Baidu.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80760, "author_name": "inversion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 14:23:03", "content": "[quote=jjMax;80729]
\nI think it is also to prevent people from easily making new accounts near the end and getting new submissions ala Baidu.
\n[/quote]
\nPerhaps the "enter by" rule should only be enforced for new accounts. (Or perhaps waived for accounts with a certain amount of accumulated Kaggle points.)
\nAlthough, that is probably a practical mess to try to implement. And it really wouldn't help most people who get burned by the rule. So, consider it just thinking out loud.
\nI'm mentioning this because I had planned to do a Saturday hackathon, but just realized I hadn't entered this contest.
\nOf course, it's not like there's a dearth of other competitions I to be working on. :-)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80761, "author_name": "sammiller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 14:37:41", "content": "", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80763, "author_name": "inversion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:06:31", "content": "[quote=pseudopolymath;80761]
\nProbably easier to just keep the enter by date and whenever someone clicks agree to rules kaggle automatically gives them a sample_submission as their first entry.
\n[/quote]
\nBut why even need the submission. Perhaps it should be "Accept Rules By".
\nNow that I'm thinking about it, there are two issues. The first is discouraging bad behavior, and the second is knowing when someone has entered a competition.
\nWhat I mean by that second point is how does Kaggle know when they should post a badge on your profile? When you accept the rules? After your first submission?
\nI usually take 5-10 submissions before I decide if I'm going to spend significant time on a competition. Let's say I'm mid-pack, and then decide to leave it alone. When the contest is done, I get a badge showing I finished rather poorly.
\nIt would be nice to be able to withdraw from a competition by a certain time.
\nAgain, this might be practically difficult, and cause other issues I haven't thought of.
\nBut, I really only care about the contests where I gave it a decent try.
\nOn the other hand, it's not that big a deal to me. It just came to mind when thinking about whether or not a first submission should be required before Kaggle considers someone "entered" in the competition.
\nRequiring that first submission allows someone to look at the data and effectively say "this contest is not for me" before committing.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80764, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:13:33", "content": "Maybe next time when you all press the "I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE RULES" button - you will actually read the rules. All these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious. You might as well just let everyone know that you are incapable of reading rules. You pressed the button when downloading the data - don't press the button if you're incapable of reading
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80766, "author_name": "inversion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:21:02", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nMaybe next time when you all press the "I HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE RULES" button - you will actually read the rules.
\n[/quote]
\nHahaha.
\nWell, in my case, I didn't click the rules before the deadline. :-)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80767, "author_name": "sammiller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:25:24", "content": "", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80770, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:39:01", "content": "[quote=pseudopolymath;80767]
\n[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nAll these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious.
\n[/quote]
\nIf like you say, there really are a lot of these posts every competition, I would say that is indicative of bad design, not tedium.
\n[/quote]
\nYou're not getting it are you? You pressed the button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly, anyone who tries to submit after the deadline did not read the rules even though they pressed the button. Where's the bad design? It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule - that's irrelevant. You pressed the button in dishonest fashion
\n\nEDIT: and the fact it has become tedious is more a reflection on how incapable some noobies are at reading
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80771, "author_name": "sammiller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:39:13", "content": "", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80774, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:50:29", "content": "[quote=kunapalli;80680]
\nI downloaded the data for Facebook competition a while and have been working on it. I wanted to submit it yesterday and I wasn't allowed to. This is such a shame. I dont quite understand. This only means, as soon as a competition starts, I should merely submit the "sample submission.csv" and I can then go about at my own pace.
\nI can understand Kaggle doing this to perhaps prevent cheating in some sense but it doesnt make any sense to me as the simple workaround exists.
\nAnd their support sucks. I sent mail asking for help and they dont respond.
\nI am disappointed in Kaggle. I thought they could do some data analysis themselves to figure out if my request was genuine.
\n[/quote]
\nYou should be disappointed with yourself not Kaggle. You pressed a button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly you didn't. The cause of your problem is due to the fact you dishonestly pressed that button - you had not read the rules at all. Next time don't press buttons dishonestly and you won't get in the same situation
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80777, "author_name": "jturkewitz", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 15:58:47", "content": "Bluefool, to be fair Kaggle's rules read like legal jargon. I think all of us at one time or another have clicked an I accept these terms and conditions without actually reading them. Personally, I wish the relevant rules were easier to understand. For instance, saying things like no code or data may be shared in the forums is ambiguous (what do they mean when they say data?)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80778, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:02:51", "content": "The main things are:
\n1. Can I form a team?
\n2. When's the first submission date?
\n3. Can I use external data?
\n4. Can I share? (the answer to this is usually YES unless Recruitment competition then it's best to keep off the forums)
\n5. How many submissions per day?
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80779, "author_name": "sammiller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:04:11", "content": "", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80780, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:05:47", "content": "Then you should both know better and actually read the rules before clicking the button
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80782, "author_name": "inversion", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:13:46", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80780]
\nThen you should both know better and actually read the rules before clicking the button
\n[/quote]
\nI just saw I missed the deadline. I didn't click the button. :-)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80785, "author_name": "sammiller", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:15:27", "content": "", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80786, "author_name": "domcastro", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:16:47", "content": "Sorry - I get uptight about "rules" - I'm in the spectrum. I also read instruction manuals
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80797, "author_name": "datamagic", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 16:48:00", "content": "I read the rules for the TFI competition in their entirety and still got bit by the first submission issue. When you're new, there's a bit of information overload going on. Key bits of information come and go into your consciousness when you are trying to process that much. You may forget about the "first submission deadline" until it is too late.
\nWhy would it hurt to call out the FSD issue a little more clearly, and to suggest the best practice of submitting a skeleton solution immediately if you are interested in a competition? That might actually reduce the number of people affected by this issue, and give the site veterans a break from having to hear so much about it.
\nSaying "read the rules" isn't really a solution, as my case illustrates. Understanding the rules is the end state we all desire. The question is - if people don't adequately understand an important rule, what specifically can we do to improve the understanding.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80823, "author_name": "jbsilva", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/03/2015 21:05:46", "content": "[quote=Bluefool;80770]
\n[quote=pseudopolymath;80767]
\n[quote=Bluefool;80764]
\nAll these "missed submission entry" posts every competition is tedious.
\n[/quote]
\nIf like you say, there really are a lot of these posts every competition, I would say that is indicative of bad design, not tedium.
\n[/quote]
\nYou're not getting it are you? You pressed the button saying you had read and understood the rules. Clearly, anyone who tries to submit after the deadline did not read the rules even though they pressed the button. Where's the bad design? It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule - that's irrelevant. You pressed the button in dishonest fashion
\nEDIT: and the fact it has become tedious is more a reflection on how incapable some noobies are at reading
\n[/quote]
\nTo be fair.
\nI wouldnt make it a reflection of "noobies". 1004 people of which at least a decent chunk are "noobies" managed to understand the parameters of the competition.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80868, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/04/2015 10:12:45", "content": "Also, submissions are currently broken due to the shitty vanity url thing.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80890, "author_name": "", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/04/2015 16:42:08", "content": "I entered the competition in May.
\nWhat does "Deadline for new entrants" mean here? Deadline for first submission?
\nWell I managed to submit today, but Kaggle says "This competition is closed to new entrants" !
\nDid I misunderstand "Deadline for new entrants" meaning?
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80901, "author_name": "rushter", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/04/2015 18:06:35", "content": "[quote=Amin Dorostanian;80890]
\nI entered the competition in May.
\nWhat does "Deadline for new entrants" mean here? Deadline for first submission?
\nWell I managed to submit today, but Kaggle says "This competition is closed to new entrants" !
\nDid I misunderstand "Deadline for new entrants" meaning?
\n[/quote]
\nYou must upload your first submission before deadline. If you are wondering why you can read messages above :).
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 80921, "author_name": "annavictoria", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/04/2015 21:11:50", "content": "Thanks for the feedback! We've updated the text on competition timelines to be more clear. (See above :)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 81166, "author_name": "shawnr", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/07/2015 17:36:09", "content": "Same for me. I am not really clear about this. I downloaded the data for the Facebook and now trying to make a submission and it doesn't let me. It is my first time. I thought deadline is 6/8/2015. Anyway I should have read the rules more carefully may be.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 81167, "author_name": "devinanzelmo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/07/2015 17:46:09", "content": "I think some people will associate the ''1st submission deadline" with the date below the bar instead of the red dot. It is slightly unclear when I look at it. Maybe have the competition end as hover text and the first submission date below the progress bar.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 81168, "author_name": "shawnr", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/07/2015 17:50:30", "content": "Competition Notes:
\nStarted: 4:40 pm, Monday 27 April 2015 UTC
Ends: 11:59 pm, Monday 8 June 2015 UTC (42 total days)
Points: this competition awards standard ranking points
Tiers: this competition counts towards tiers
Rule Says
\nStart Date: 4/27/2015 4:40:01 PM UTC
Merger Deadline: None
First Submission Deadline: 6/1/2015 11:59:00 PM UTC
End Date: 6/8/2015 11:59:00 PM UTC
Would be nice to add first submission deadline to the Competition main page. My Facebook dreams got shattered by this Hypothesis class.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 81215, "author_name": "sreak1089", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/08/2015 08:04:57", "content": "Can I submit after competition is closed, ie on June 9th? My goal is only academic, that is to see where my submission stands and not really to participate in the competition.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 81225, "author_name": "calippo", "author_url": "", "post_date": "06/08/2015 11:33:55", "content": "Hi, I also missed the first submission deadline. I am allowed to submit and see my score only after the competition has ended right?
\n[btw, I didn't notice the red dot on the blue bar. I didn't even notice the blue bar. This is what I cared about, and what I really find misleading:
\nStarted: 4:40 pm, Monday 27 April 2015 UTC
Ends: 11:59 pm, Monday 8 June 2015 UTC (42 total days)
Points: this competition awards standard ranking points
Tiers: this competition counts towards tiers]