I see that sample submission file does not have a field \"Wloc\" = game location. If there a way to determine it? I don't see a (simple) way to map game city to a team, and i think that is needed to define Wloc.
", "messages": [ { "id": "754355", "postDate": "02/23/2020 13:07:31", "content": "I see that sample submission file does not have a field \"Wloc\" = game location. If there a way to determine it? I don't see a (simple) way to map game city to a team, and i think that is needed to define Wloc.
", "rawMarkdown": "I see that sample submission file does not have a field \"Wloc\" = game location. If there a way to determine it? I don't see a (simple) way to map game city to a team, and i think that is needed to define Wloc.", "votes": null }, { "id": "754570", "postDate": "02/23/2020 18:47:16", "content": "This one is tricky because we won't know the bracket structure (including game cities) until the last moment (Selection Monday). The top 16 seeds (the top four seeds in each region) will host the first two rounds, and then the sites for the next two rounds, and final four, are already known. Essentially you would need to associate a slot with a CityID, and then use the WNCAATourneySlots file to figure out the possible pairings. You could also just say that in the first two rounds, the games played by seeds W01, X01, Y01, Z01, W02, X02, ..., Y04, Z04 are home games for those teams, and all other possible matchups are neutral sites. It already starts to get tricky because if X05 plays X04 in round two then it's an away game for X05, but if X05 plays X13 in round two then it's a neutral site.
", "rawMarkdown": "This one is tricky because we won't know the bracket structure (including game cities) until the last moment (Selection Monday). The top 16 seeds (the top four seeds in each region) will host the first two rounds, and then the sites for the next two rounds, and final four, are already known. Essentially you would need to associate a slot with a CityID, and then use the WNCAATourneySlots file to figure out the possible pairings. You could also just say that in the first two rounds, the games played by seeds W01, X01, Y01, Z01, W02, X02, ..., Y04, Z04 are home games for those teams, and all other possible matchups are neutral sites. It already starts to get tricky because if X05 plays X04 in round two then it's an away game for X05, but if X05 plays X13 in round two then it's a neutral site.", "votes": null }, { "id": "755568", "postDate": "02/24/2020 22:30:53", "content": "i see - that is what i suspected. Thanks for explaining it.
", "rawMarkdown": "i see - that is what i suspected. Thanks for explaining it.", "votes": null }, { "id": "762058", "postDate": "03/03/2020 06:59:49", "content": "Hi @jeffsonas,\nCan you please clarify the rules for game location? I mean, what happens for X04 vs X12 and X12 vs X13? And are these rules, you explained, valid for all strong seeds (i.e. X01, X02, X03). In that case X016 vs X08 will be played in neutral site. Am I right?
", "rawMarkdown": "Hi @jeffsonas,\nCan you please clarify the rules for game location? I mean, what happens for X04 vs X12 and X12 vs X13? And are these rules, you explained, valid for all strong seeds (i.e. X01, X02, X03). In that case X016 vs X08 will be played in neutral site. Am I right?", "votes": null }, { "id": "762078", "postDate": "03/03/2020 07:31:51", "content": "There are four different regions (W, X, Y, Z), each with 16 teams. Let's just consider Z - the others are handled similarly. There are four top Z teams (Z01, Z02, Z03, Z04). Each of them hosts a set of three games. For example, one of those sets is Z01 vs Z16, Z08 vs Z09, and the winners of those two games playing each other. All three games are at the home court of the best-seeded team (Z01). So whether it is Z01 or Z16 winning that first game, and whether it is Z08 or Z09 winning that second game, the third game will nevertheless be held on the home court of team Z01. So if Z01 is playing, it could be viewed as a home game, and if Z01 lost and is not playing, then it could be viewed as a neutral game.
\n\nSo to answer your specific questions, X04 plays X13 and X05 plays X12, and the winners face each other. No matter what, all three games are on the home court of X04, whether it be X04 vs X05, X04 vs X12, X13 vs X05, or X13 vs X12. And yes, the X08 matchup vs X16, if it happens, would be in the second round and would be on the home court of X01. You can think of it in the simplest terms (WLoc) of whether it's home/away/neutral, or if you want you can get more complex and consider the actual geographical location, if you want to incorporate travel-related factors.
\n\nOnce each region is down to four teams - which for instance would be Y01, Y02, Y03, Y04 if there are no upsets - then they would similarly play a set of three games at a particular location. We don't really know which one is W or X or Y or Z yet - that will depend on the bracket specifics - but the four cities are already known. I guess we do know that W will be the first city alphabetically of the four \"regional final\" locations, which I think will be called Dallas, Fort Wayne, Greenville, and Portland. So by definition, Dallas would be W. But we don't know who the Dallas regional winner will be until the brackets are announced, because it depends on the selection committee's overall ranking of the top four teams. Whoever the Dallas Regional winner will face in the national semifinals (either Fort Wayne, Greenville, or Portland), that will be region X.
\n\nAnd the Final Four, which is played among the four regional champions, will be held in New Orleans.
\n\nProbably the best way to represent this in our dataset, would be to have a bunch of extra columns in the Seasons table, namely the 21 city locations for each of the sets of three games (X01, X02, X03, X04, XFinal, Y01, Y02, ..., Z03, Z04, ZFinal, FinalFour). We have never done that officially though.
", "rawMarkdown": "There are four different regions (W, X, Y, Z), each with 16 teams. Let's just consider Z - the others are handled similarly. There are four top Z teams (Z01, Z02, Z03, Z04). Each of them hosts a set of three games. For example, one of those sets is Z01 vs Z16, Z08 vs Z09, and the winners of those two games playing each other. All three games are at the home court of the best-seeded team (Z01). So whether it is Z01 or Z16 winning that first game, and whether it is Z08 or Z09 winning that second game, the third game will nevertheless be held on the home court of team Z01. So if Z01 is playing, it could be viewed as a home game, and if Z01 lost and is not playing, then it could be viewed as a neutral game.\n\nSo to answer your specific questions, X04 plays X13 and X05 plays X12, and the winners face each other. No matter what, all three games are on the home court of X04, whether it be X04 vs X05, X04 vs X12, X13 vs X05, or X13 vs X12. And yes, the X08 matchup vs X16, if it happens, would be in the second round and would be on the home court of X01. You can think of it in the simplest terms (WLoc) of whether it's home/away/neutral, or if you want you can get more complex and consider the actual geographical location, if you want to incorporate travel-related factors.\n\nOnce each region is down to four teams - which for instance would be Y01, Y02, Y03, Y04 if there are no upsets - then they would similarly play a set of three games at a particular location. We don't really know which one is W or X or Y or Z yet - that will depend on the bracket specifics - but the four cities are already known. I guess we do know that W will be the first city alphabetically of the four \"regional final\" locations, which I think will be called Dallas, Fort Wayne, Greenville, and Portland. So by definition, Dallas would be W. But we don't know who the Dallas regional winner will be until the brackets are announced, because it depends on the selection committee's overall ranking of the top four teams. Whoever the Dallas Regional winner will face in the national semifinals (either Fort Wayne, Greenville, or Portland), that will be region X.\n\nAnd the Final Four, which is played among the four regional champions, will be held in New Orleans.\n\nProbably the best way to represent this in our dataset, would be to have a bunch of extra columns in the Seasons table, namely the 21 city locations for each of the sets of three games (X01, X02, X03, X04, XFinal, Y01, Y02, ..., Z03, Z04, ZFinal, FinalFour). We have never done that officially though.", "votes": null }, { "id": "762107", "postDate": "03/03/2020 08:04:55", "content": "Hi @jeffsonas,
\n\nThank you for the detailed explanation. I think I finally understood :)
", "rawMarkdown": "Hi @jeffsonas,\n\nThank you for the detailed explanation. I think I finally understood :)", "votes": null } ], "comments": [ { "id": 754570, "author_name": "jeffsonas", "author_url": "", "post_date": "02/23/2020 18:47:16", "content": "This one is tricky because we won't know the bracket structure (including game cities) until the last moment (Selection Monday). The top 16 seeds (the top four seeds in each region) will host the first two rounds, and then the sites for the next two rounds, and final four, are already known. Essentially you would need to associate a slot with a CityID, and then use the WNCAATourneySlots file to figure out the possible pairings. You could also just say that in the first two rounds, the games played by seeds W01, X01, Y01, Z01, W02, X02, ..., Y04, Z04 are home games for those teams, and all other possible matchups are neutral sites. It already starts to get tricky because if X05 plays X04 in round two then it's an away game for X05, but if X05 plays X13 in round two then it's a neutral site.
", "votes": null, "replies": [ { "id": 762058, "author_name": "erkanhatipoglu", "author_url": "", "post_date": "03/03/2020 06:59:49", "content": "Hi @jeffsonas,\nCan you please clarify the rules for game location? I mean, what happens for X04 vs X12 and X12 vs X13? And are these rules, you explained, valid for all strong seeds (i.e. X01, X02, X03). In that case X016 vs X08 will be played in neutral site. Am I right?
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 762078, "author_name": "jeffsonas", "author_url": "", "post_date": "03/03/2020 07:31:51", "content": "There are four different regions (W, X, Y, Z), each with 16 teams. Let's just consider Z - the others are handled similarly. There are four top Z teams (Z01, Z02, Z03, Z04). Each of them hosts a set of three games. For example, one of those sets is Z01 vs Z16, Z08 vs Z09, and the winners of those two games playing each other. All three games are at the home court of the best-seeded team (Z01). So whether it is Z01 or Z16 winning that first game, and whether it is Z08 or Z09 winning that second game, the third game will nevertheless be held on the home court of team Z01. So if Z01 is playing, it could be viewed as a home game, and if Z01 lost and is not playing, then it could be viewed as a neutral game.
\n\nSo to answer your specific questions, X04 plays X13 and X05 plays X12, and the winners face each other. No matter what, all three games are on the home court of X04, whether it be X04 vs X05, X04 vs X12, X13 vs X05, or X13 vs X12. And yes, the X08 matchup vs X16, if it happens, would be in the second round and would be on the home court of X01. You can think of it in the simplest terms (WLoc) of whether it's home/away/neutral, or if you want you can get more complex and consider the actual geographical location, if you want to incorporate travel-related factors.
\n\nOnce each region is down to four teams - which for instance would be Y01, Y02, Y03, Y04 if there are no upsets - then they would similarly play a set of three games at a particular location. We don't really know which one is W or X or Y or Z yet - that will depend on the bracket specifics - but the four cities are already known. I guess we do know that W will be the first city alphabetically of the four \"regional final\" locations, which I think will be called Dallas, Fort Wayne, Greenville, and Portland. So by definition, Dallas would be W. But we don't know who the Dallas regional winner will be until the brackets are announced, because it depends on the selection committee's overall ranking of the top four teams. Whoever the Dallas Regional winner will face in the national semifinals (either Fort Wayne, Greenville, or Portland), that will be region X.
\n\nAnd the Final Four, which is played among the four regional champions, will be held in New Orleans.
\n\nProbably the best way to represent this in our dataset, would be to have a bunch of extra columns in the Seasons table, namely the 21 city locations for each of the sets of three games (X01, X02, X03, X04, XFinal, Y01, Y02, ..., Z03, Z04, ZFinal, FinalFour). We have never done that officially though.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] }, { "id": 762107, "author_name": "erkanhatipoglu", "author_url": "", "post_date": "03/03/2020 08:04:55", "content": "Hi @jeffsonas,
\n\nThank you for the detailed explanation. I think I finally understood :)
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ] }, { "id": 755568, "author_name": "ymatioun", "author_url": "", "post_date": "02/24/2020 22:30:53", "content": "i see - that is what i suspected. Thanks for explaining it.
", "votes": null, "replies": [] } ], "raw_markdown_by_id": { "754355": "I see that sample submission file does not have a field \"Wloc\" = game location. If there a way to determine it? I don't see a (simple) way to map game city to a team, and i think that is needed to define Wloc.", "754570": "This one is tricky because we won't know the bracket structure (including game cities) until the last moment (Selection Monday). The top 16 seeds (the top four seeds in each region) will host the first two rounds, and then the sites for the next two rounds, and final four, are already known. Essentially you would need to associate a slot with a CityID, and then use the WNCAATourneySlots file to figure out the possible pairings. You could also just say that in the first two rounds, the games played by seeds W01, X01, Y01, Z01, W02, X02, ..., Y04, Z04 are home games for those teams, and all other possible matchups are neutral sites. It already starts to get tricky because if X05 plays X04 in round two then it's an away game for X05, but if X05 plays X13 in round two then it's a neutral site.", "755568": "i see - that is what i suspected. Thanks for explaining it.", "762058": "Hi @jeffsonas,\nCan you please clarify the rules for game location? I mean, what happens for X04 vs X12 and X12 vs X13? And are these rules, you explained, valid for all strong seeds (i.e. X01, X02, X03). In that case X016 vs X08 will be played in neutral site. Am I right?", "762078": "There are four different regions (W, X, Y, Z), each with 16 teams. Let's just consider Z - the others are handled similarly. There are four top Z teams (Z01, Z02, Z03, Z04). Each of them hosts a set of three games. For example, one of those sets is Z01 vs Z16, Z08 vs Z09, and the winners of those two games playing each other. All three games are at the home court of the best-seeded team (Z01). So whether it is Z01 or Z16 winning that first game, and whether it is Z08 or Z09 winning that second game, the third game will nevertheless be held on the home court of team Z01. So if Z01 is playing, it could be viewed as a home game, and if Z01 lost and is not playing, then it could be viewed as a neutral game.\n\nSo to answer your specific questions, X04 plays X13 and X05 plays X12, and the winners face each other. No matter what, all three games are on the home court of X04, whether it be X04 vs X05, X04 vs X12, X13 vs X05, or X13 vs X12. And yes, the X08 matchup vs X16, if it happens, would be in the second round and would be on the home court of X01. You can think of it in the simplest terms (WLoc) of whether it's home/away/neutral, or if you want you can get more complex and consider the actual geographical location, if you want to incorporate travel-related factors.\n\nOnce each region is down to four teams - which for instance would be Y01, Y02, Y03, Y04 if there are no upsets - then they would similarly play a set of three games at a particular location. We don't really know which one is W or X or Y or Z yet - that will depend on the bracket specifics - but the four cities are already known. I guess we do know that W will be the first city alphabetically of the four \"regional final\" locations, which I think will be called Dallas, Fort Wayne, Greenville, and Portland. So by definition, Dallas would be W. But we don't know who the Dallas regional winner will be until the brackets are announced, because it depends on the selection committee's overall ranking of the top four teams. Whoever the Dallas Regional winner will face in the national semifinals (either Fort Wayne, Greenville, or Portland), that will be region X.\n\nAnd the Final Four, which is played among the four regional champions, will be held in New Orleans.\n\nProbably the best way to represent this in our dataset, would be to have a bunch of extra columns in the Seasons table, namely the 21 city locations for each of the sets of three games (X01, X02, X03, X04, XFinal, Y01, Y02, ..., Z03, Z04, ZFinal, FinalFour). We have never done that officially though.", "762107": "Hi @jeffsonas,\n\nThank you for the detailed explanation. I think I finally understood :)" }, "source": "meta" }